Dr Barber: spot on - the sonnets mirror the plays (and narrative poems); it is reasonable to conclude that whoever Shakespeare was, he (she or they in some instances) wrote all three - plays, poems, sonnets. And careful reading of the sonnets as reflections - somewhat like a diary - reveals the person doing the writing. Read the sonnets, know the writer - then use some evidence to place a name on ‘Shakespeare’. C.Boynton
I quite understand your world weary attitude but it does mean SAT is a CLOSED SHOP and will not welcome any new input. You think there isn't any new input worth considering so no further exploration is worthwhile. That is just as bad as the group who blindly support the illiterate from Stratford. Both are contentedly reaching evolutionary dead ends?
I just have to work out the right way to get my carefully researched revelation out there. I think it means going it alone. It probably means going back to basics and publishing a book.
Sue, that is not at all what I said. The SAT has set up this Substack specifically so that members can be more involved and share their thoughts with the community. I didn't say what you are saying, and I am not 'world weary'. I am full of energy and hope! I can see things are moving in the SAQ and that is encouraging.
What I was saying is that it is my personal mission is to get the question more widely accepted, and this is therefore where I focus my time and energy. This is very much part of the mission statement of the SAT too. But the SAT is not against new candidates, and indeed we added Florio fairly recently, and have had a Florio speaker at our most recent conference. We also addressed the North candidacy (another recent candidate) in the last couple of years.
However, both of these were candidacies that were already gaining traction, and had published articles and books supporting them, and that's what needs to happen first. In order for ideas to gain traction, the person with the idea has to get it 'out there' and get some support for it. That is what I was suggesting, with the aim of being helpful! If your new candidate gains traction, then certainly, the SAT board will be interested too.
I follow Marianna in her @resoluteflorio YouTube channel and the claim that the first ever Shakespeare mention, the famous “Shake-scenes” text is directed to John Florio is pretty solid. It shocked me at first, I confess. But the explanation given seems legitimate.
Evidence sufficient to identify the one true candidate and put a name would eliminate all the other proposed candidates, including Edward De Vere.
The sonnets were published posthumously as a selection by another hand but they are indeed like a running diary of events in that person's life. With the name it is possible to read the true meaning of the sonnets. Even obscure sonnets then make sense. Forget the sonnet naming Will which is an interpolation and remember the gibe about William Shakespeare being a "Terence". The great writer's name is neither William nor Edward.
The evidence has to show:
the great unknown who was behind the Martin Marprelate Tracts. Also why Job Throckmorton was protected from the authorities.
who was behind the sonnets
and the very early Romeus and Juliet
what is the meaning of the title, "Love's Martyr or Rosalin's Complaint".
why the battle action in Henry V at Agincourt was a cameo of another battle, not the writer being ignorant of warfare.
who was being targeted in "Venus and Adonis" and the identiites of the frustrated matron and juvenile
who was being targeted in "The Rape of Lucrece" and who she and her parents were.
why the young Earl of Southampton was selected as "patron".
how the name "William Shake-speare" was invented as a pen name.
why the writer has extensive knowledge of the history of the royal family and court affairs.
why he has extensive experience of the Law.
why he has extensive knowledge of naval matters.
why he said nothing when Elizabeth 1 died.
why he was not arrested when Richard 11 was staged as a signal for the Earl of Essex's rebellion.
why he kept a low profile and his identity was protected.
why the illiterate William Shakspeare of Stratford upon Avon was utilised as a decoy and how.
what was the hidden "Curse" in MacBeth and how, very bizzarely, but with help from a family member, the curse later came true. The hidden structure in the play Macbeth.
If you can answer all these questions you can identify and name "Shakespeare", just as I can.
Sue Bell here. Obviously the Sonnets are important to identify Shakespeare. As I said in London 5 years ago I do know the identity of Shakespeare (not his name) and his supporters but how do I get anyone to listen to me? I have solved the mystery, as I assert quietly but analytically. All my cross-checking matches one candidate only and he is NOT one of the candidates proposed so far.
Hi Sue, I get several people every year writing to me to say they have solved the mystery and the author is this brand new candidate. Personally I don’t think we need more candidates and my focus is on getting the SAQ accepted as a valid in academic and mainstream thinking rather than trying to convince people that we have the solution. But I understand if you think you have a solution, that’s frustrating.
One way forward for you would be to start writing about your candidate and seeing if other people find it persuasive. You could set up your own blog for free on Substack, for example, and start laying out your case. That way you can test your ideas and find out if other people agree with your solution.
Hi Sue. Really interested in your work. Please share a link or something. I found many good sources about the authorship (the Folio, the Stratford monument, contemporary texts speaking about Shakespeare, good solid unorthodox claims etc. ) But I did not found the sonnets to be particularly interesting for that. The sonnets as far as I have found are great for studying the underground aesthetic and philosophical choices the Shake-Spears man or men appreciated and favored.
Hello to everyone from South Spain. Thanks to all of you I have been reading about the authorship question and the sonnets last two years. I do not know if it is very important to know who wrote the poems (could be easily a groupal effort) exactly. We know what they shared. But in my search I have found that the authors of Project Shakespeare, if I may call it like that, gave a lot of clues of how to read those cryptic poems. I will say it in other words. If your candidate author or authors does not provide help giving you meaning, you are not in the good track. From where I see things, authorship and meaning are completely linked. It’s fantastic how some scholars write about the sonnets without knowing the “I” or the “You” of the poems.
Dr Barber: spot on - the sonnets mirror the plays (and narrative poems); it is reasonable to conclude that whoever Shakespeare was, he (she or they in some instances) wrote all three - plays, poems, sonnets. And careful reading of the sonnets as reflections - somewhat like a diary - reveals the person doing the writing. Read the sonnets, know the writer - then use some evidence to place a name on ‘Shakespeare’. C.Boynton
Dear Ros,
I quite understand your world weary attitude but it does mean SAT is a CLOSED SHOP and will not welcome any new input. You think there isn't any new input worth considering so no further exploration is worthwhile. That is just as bad as the group who blindly support the illiterate from Stratford. Both are contentedly reaching evolutionary dead ends?
I just have to work out the right way to get my carefully researched revelation out there. I think it means going it alone. It probably means going back to basics and publishing a book.
Sue Bell
Sue, that is not at all what I said. The SAT has set up this Substack specifically so that members can be more involved and share their thoughts with the community. I didn't say what you are saying, and I am not 'world weary'. I am full of energy and hope! I can see things are moving in the SAQ and that is encouraging.
What I was saying is that it is my personal mission is to get the question more widely accepted, and this is therefore where I focus my time and energy. This is very much part of the mission statement of the SAT too. But the SAT is not against new candidates, and indeed we added Florio fairly recently, and have had a Florio speaker at our most recent conference. We also addressed the North candidacy (another recent candidate) in the last couple of years.
However, both of these were candidacies that were already gaining traction, and had published articles and books supporting them, and that's what needs to happen first. In order for ideas to gain traction, the person with the idea has to get it 'out there' and get some support for it. That is what I was suggesting, with the aim of being helpful! If your new candidate gains traction, then certainly, the SAT board will be interested too.
I follow Marianna in her @resoluteflorio YouTube channel and the claim that the first ever Shakespeare mention, the famous “Shake-scenes” text is directed to John Florio is pretty solid. It shocked me at first, I confess. But the explanation given seems legitimate.
I don't agree with that interpretation of Groatsworth text, but the body Florio scholarship holds some interest, for sure.
Evidence is all.
Evidence sufficient to identify the one true candidate and put a name would eliminate all the other proposed candidates, including Edward De Vere.
The sonnets were published posthumously as a selection by another hand but they are indeed like a running diary of events in that person's life. With the name it is possible to read the true meaning of the sonnets. Even obscure sonnets then make sense. Forget the sonnet naming Will which is an interpolation and remember the gibe about William Shakespeare being a "Terence". The great writer's name is neither William nor Edward.
The evidence has to show:
the great unknown who was behind the Martin Marprelate Tracts. Also why Job Throckmorton was protected from the authorities.
who was behind the sonnets
and the very early Romeus and Juliet
what is the meaning of the title, "Love's Martyr or Rosalin's Complaint".
why the battle action in Henry V at Agincourt was a cameo of another battle, not the writer being ignorant of warfare.
who was being targeted in "Venus and Adonis" and the identiites of the frustrated matron and juvenile
who was being targeted in "The Rape of Lucrece" and who she and her parents were.
why the young Earl of Southampton was selected as "patron".
how the name "William Shake-speare" was invented as a pen name.
why the writer has extensive knowledge of the history of the royal family and court affairs.
why he has extensive experience of the Law.
why he has extensive knowledge of naval matters.
why he said nothing when Elizabeth 1 died.
why he was not arrested when Richard 11 was staged as a signal for the Earl of Essex's rebellion.
why he kept a low profile and his identity was protected.
why the illiterate William Shakspeare of Stratford upon Avon was utilised as a decoy and how.
what was the hidden "Curse" in MacBeth and how, very bizzarely, but with help from a family member, the curse later came true. The hidden structure in the play Macbeth.
If you can answer all these questions you can identify and name "Shakespeare", just as I can.
Sue Bell 10 April 2024.
Sue Bell here. Obviously the Sonnets are important to identify Shakespeare. As I said in London 5 years ago I do know the identity of Shakespeare (not his name) and his supporters but how do I get anyone to listen to me? I have solved the mystery, as I assert quietly but analytically. All my cross-checking matches one candidate only and he is NOT one of the candidates proposed so far.
Hi Sue, I get several people every year writing to me to say they have solved the mystery and the author is this brand new candidate. Personally I don’t think we need more candidates and my focus is on getting the SAQ accepted as a valid in academic and mainstream thinking rather than trying to convince people that we have the solution. But I understand if you think you have a solution, that’s frustrating.
One way forward for you would be to start writing about your candidate and seeing if other people find it persuasive. You could set up your own blog for free on Substack, for example, and start laying out your case. That way you can test your ideas and find out if other people agree with your solution.
Hi Sue. Really interested in your work. Please share a link or something. I found many good sources about the authorship (the Folio, the Stratford monument, contemporary texts speaking about Shakespeare, good solid unorthodox claims etc. ) But I did not found the sonnets to be particularly interesting for that. The sonnets as far as I have found are great for studying the underground aesthetic and philosophical choices the Shake-Spears man or men appreciated and favored.
Hello to everyone from South Spain. Thanks to all of you I have been reading about the authorship question and the sonnets last two years. I do not know if it is very important to know who wrote the poems (could be easily a groupal effort) exactly. We know what they shared. But in my search I have found that the authors of Project Shakespeare, if I may call it like that, gave a lot of clues of how to read those cryptic poems. I will say it in other words. If your candidate author or authors does not provide help giving you meaning, you are not in the good track. From where I see things, authorship and meaning are completely linked. It’s fantastic how some scholars write about the sonnets without knowing the “I” or the “You” of the poems.